Posted by: berencamlost | September 22, 2008

The Ghost of Thomas Paine

Posted in Politics, conservative, government, leftist, liberal | Tags: , , , , ,

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Responses

  1. He is wayyy too angry. While he makes some valid points, it is a logical fallacy to postulate that multi-culturalism is equal to disunity (the greatest illustration of this is marriage).

    It’s also completely historically inaccurate to say that our history has been one of uni-culturalism. In the early years of our country, there were many French, American Indian, South Americans, and plenty of others in with the British. After the War of 1812, we had a massive influx of Scotch, Irish and Germans, as well as increased migration from Mexico/South America. And we all know the story of the late 19th/early 20th century and Ellis Island.

    These peoples maintained a lot of their cultural traditions and identities, though they were proud to be Americans, which is the most important thing.

    All across the country, ESOL classes are filling to capacity, with waiting lists as long as one year is some parts. If we don’t want to “marque ocho” for Spanish, we, the people, should do something about it. You don’t have to have an ESOL certification to volunteer to assist at a local church or community organization’s ESOL program.

    My greatest issue with this guy is that he’s just encouraging everyone to point the finger at the government and say “fix it, fix it” which is exactly what the other side does. If we want change, we must rise up…with actions. Talk is cheap. The problem is that most people are too apathetic to think about effecting change. Even a phone call to a government switchboard is too much to ask from them.

    The sad thing is that the valid points he has are scattered amongst mostly angry and ignorant rhetoric, obscuring their validity.

    By: Jared on September 25, 2008
    at 9:58 am

    Reply

  2. Yeah, you make some good points. The cultural issue is a very interesting argument, as many would argue that America doesn’t really have a culture that is uniquely their own. But, I would say that there is a core ideal that has influenced all aspects of cultures that have come to this nation, and that core is one of a Judeo-Christian ethic, one of individualism, and one of free ideas and expressions. Placing those at the core of all cultural expressions in a sense makes those ideals a “culture” that is uniquely American. I’m probably gonna get tore up over that one, but that’s fine. Those elements are undeniably what has shaped this nation since it’s inception and still exist, despite the radicals in this nation wanting to stamp them out. Also unique to America is the adoption of English as our primary language (which it is, despite not being officially recognized by our Government for politically correct reasons.)

    And, as far as multiculturalism, here is a ball of wax that needs some firm definitions on, since it is used in a lot of contexts with a lot of different meanings. Multiculturalism is a form of pluralism, and states that all cultures are essentially equal in the sense of quality and importance. So, if a tribe in another country performs clitorectomy’s on all females, doing that is fair and just and we can’t make value judgments against them. It essentially makes all morals and values the same, and thus avoids making any judgments of any sorts against a culture. This thinking rejects the Judeo-Christian value system, as to the muticulturalist all things have equal value and there is no standard by which to judge right and wrong.

    The opposite of multiculturalism is the assertion would state that some cultures are better than others. (Taken to the extreme, we unfortunately get people joining the KKK or the Black Panthers). The best approach is to say that there are some values which are better than others, and some ethics that you must apply across cultures. Some cultures have unique expressions in that culture that are different from our own, but not necessarily wrong. But when that culture has a custom or a practice that goes against the teachings of Jesus then you have to say that what they practice is wrong.

    As a believer, we would have a BIG problem with a society that sacrifices their children to Molech. A multiculturalist wouldn’t. They would say that’s just how they do things there and we can’t really say that what they do is wrong.

    So, I’m not sure what definition of multiculturalism you are holding. What I just spelled out is multiculturalism as described by academia as well as our society. I’m guessing the disunity that this guy says is the result of the clash of this type of multiculturalism against the Judeo-Christian worldview.

    I never really picked up on the angry tone until you said something. Guess I need to make sure I have more coffee before I post these things…

    By: berencamlost on September 25, 2008
    at 1:10 pm

    Reply

  3. C’mon, dude. How can you know me so well and for so long and say that you don’t know what I mean by multiculturalism? I’m not just some nut-job liberal out there saying anything. You know that I’m a committed follower of Jesus, above all else. I said positive things about (and actually like, in general) Ron Paul; what more evidence do you need?

    I don’t think multi-culturalism means that we don’t condemn evil and human rights violations within that culture. We must all be Americans first. However, that doesn’t mean that Mexicans have to quit living in multi-generational dwellings, quit drinking Tecate and quit enjoying loud accordian music. I know you believe the same, and, in essence, you’re essentially using different language to make a very similar (if not the same) point.

    What I take issue with is the way this guy playing Thomas Paine sounded like he wanted to wipe out anything that wasn’t exactly like white America (as in your example of the other extreme), and he wanted the government to do it. It doesn’t exactly speak Jesus to show everyone who isn’t like us our angry, self-righteous, “be like us, do it our way or go to hell” face.

    No worries, dude. I’ll just be printing out pictures of you and be using that for toilet paper for a week or two. That’ll learn ya, you global warming, green-bellied commie pinko!

    By: Jared on September 25, 2008
    at 3:53 pm

    Reply

  4. Here is a great response to multiculturalism: http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2008/09/25/watch-where-youre-going-or-plumbing-and-the-progress-of-soft-jihad/

    By: Catholic Nutjob on September 25, 2008
    at 8:01 pm

    Reply

  5. Jared, your picture has been on my dartboard for weeks! (Jerk….)

    Just kidding, dude. And, Mr. Catholic Nutjob, that article was pretty funny.

    By: berencamlost on September 25, 2008
    at 8:48 pm

    Reply

  6. This guy proves just how right the “Ghost of Thomas Paine” is.

    http://failblog.org/2008/07/09/spelling-fail/

    By: Jared on September 26, 2008
    at 8:47 am

    Reply

  7. ENglush Be mah ferst langwayje!

    By: berencamlost on September 27, 2008
    at 8:24 pm

    Reply

  8. All I have to say is have any of you ever been in a mob? If you have you know what chaos is, now imagine if everone in that mob had to agree on what they want for lunch, Some people hate chicken, some hate beef, most people are willing to compromise, but even someone who compromises will feel left out if the choise is not even aceptable to their taste. America is that mob, Politics is the lunch, most of us are willing to compromise but feel left out when none of our choises seem to matter. If you feel like no one is listening to your exact point of view, well most likely they aren’t(although there may be some special intrest group that you think suits you needs but usuall runs on a their own agenda). Thats life in a society of compromise. If you need to feel like your being taken seriously all of the time then I suggest you start a cult and become it’s leader.

    By: Darwin's friend on January 10, 2009
    at 7:41 pm

    Reply

  9. Mr. Darwin’s Friend,

    You are definitely not a friend of Darwin. Here is why:

    1) Darwin was not a proponent of chaos.
    2) Darwin was highly educated. You are not.
    3) Darwin could use proper punctuation.
    4) Darwin did believe in God
    5) Darwin would have no problem with anything this gentlemen pretending to be Thomas Payne says, as he believed in logic and an orderly society.
    6) In the intellectual arena, dealing with “Survival of the fittest”, you would not survive.

    Thanks for your comment anyways.

    By: berencamlost on January 12, 2009
    at 9:56 am

    Reply


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